tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5891731747515762073.post911140490122270455..comments2023-10-23T12:04:09.668-07:00Comments on The Chamber of Mazarbul: Dungeons and Dragons: Genesys Science ExperimentBrian Slabyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05333048710667620592noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5891731747515762073.post-50871622660177177192017-12-20T20:03:48.462-08:002017-12-20T20:03:48.462-08:00I disagree that anything as presented in the magic...I disagree that anything as presented in the magic system is equivalent to "at-will" magic. That strain cost is always going to be a burden, and even if you gain enough Advantage to recover it there's still an opportunity cost, because a weapon user would be using that Advantage for something else. Besides, considering many extra effects require Advantage to trigger, strain recovery is not likely to be common.<br /><br />As for my benchmark for whether a blast mage is viable, if it's suffering a cost (i.e. strain, increased difficulty, worse Threat/Despair) then it should edge out a weapon user. How much better very much depends on how steep the cost is. My main problem is that the costs for magic in Genesys are very high, and the results often end up being WORSE than a weapon user who doesn't have to suffer those costs. <br /><br />Flexibility is tough to value. However, in other TTRPGs where some characters have more flexibility than others, it seems like they're largely not punished as much as Genesys mages. <br /><br />In a game where homebrewed talents are available, this will hopefully be mitigated. Brian Slabyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05333048710667620592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5891731747515762073.post-43101788126335624432017-12-20T19:55:31.822-08:002017-12-20T19:55:31.822-08:00I agree that talents could potentially fix a lot o...I agree that talents could potentially fix a lot of the issues in the magic system. I just wish we'd be shown some.<br /><br />However, while so many things are "available" to magic users, many of the options won't be worth using. Based on the math, it's looking like adding fewer effects makes spells more effective, which is counter-intuitive. Talents could easily solve this, but at this point I'm only going off of what was presented directly in the core book. Then there's the fact that the balance between different effects is NOT equal, despite having equal cost. Blast will often do nothing, unless you have enemies with very low soak and/or generated a TON of successes (which makes the Advantage necessary to trigger it less likely).<br /><br />Brian Slabyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05333048710667620592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5891731747515762073.post-86868030588746708962017-12-18T21:23:28.342-08:002017-12-18T21:23:28.342-08:00Looking at the Star Wars system there should be a ...Looking at the Star Wars system there should be a lot of talents to improve the Damage and vicious of the melee character. But the Mage has all those options available to them right from the start, at a cost of increased difficulty.<br /><br />I feel like Magic is made to be difficult but versatile right from the beginning, every single spell with every upgrade is available immediately. But it seems it’s with the full expectation that Talents will reduce the difficulty. There are so many options for custom magic talents it’s quite mind bending. Every effect of every spell could be modified by a Talent.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00157479988334637485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5891731747515762073.post-234931661119737322017-12-13T19:17:55.712-08:002017-12-13T19:17:55.712-08:00Well, I'd argue that there is an "at-will...Well, I'd argue that there is an "at-will" magical attack: Using the "attack" spell unmodified, or with only the bonus(es) granted by your implement.<br /><br />For instance, with a "Deadly" Wand, you would have an attack of:<br />6 or 7 damage, Crit 2, Range Short, Vicious 2, Difficulty 1.<br /><br />If your check is YYGG, you're going to actually be rolling decent damage, and probably such an abundance of Advantage that the stamina "cost" ceases to be. You might even be able to recover some stamina using that. With the solid Crit rating and Vicious quality, that might actually be something better than what D&D mages could reasonably do with their "at-will" magic options.<br /><br />But even compared to other weapons, that's not bad. That's bow damage, or a crossbow that exchanges Pierce 2 for losing Prepare 1. And with ranged weapon accuracy at any range (as long as ranged attack difficulties are the same as star wars - I honestly haven't looked), since you can Extend it to the desired range by adding 1 difficulty per band (the same rate-of-growth as standard ranged attacks). If you compare it to Star Wars options, its in the Blaster Pistol / Heavy Blaster Pistol range. Which is right where it probably should be, given the money spent being comparable.<br /><br />If you're looking at whether a "blast" mage is viable, how are you determining that? Does it -have- to be able to deal the most damage, despite the obvious flexibility? If it can, isn't that a problem for whatever other character you were comparing it to? Does it have to measure up to a D&D wizard? Does it have to measure up to the "iconic" D&D wizard powers with only starting XP and gear?<br /><br />The systems are so different that I'm not even sure how you -can- compare them. This isn't a "limited resource" system like D&D, and "powerful" spells being hard to pull off is supposed to be the point. I've seen several people fret about "Fireball" being hard to successfully cast, without really considering that something like that is supposed to be difficult in this system, because it's not limited to "only twice per day". If you can only reasonably pull off an "appropriately powerful" spell 2 or 3 times each day, is that an appropriate power level? What if you can only reasonably do it once per encounter, because of the strain (from double-aiming)?<br /><br />If you want to be able to, essentially, fire (mini)missiles nearly at-will (free Empowered, Blast, and Fire add-ons; difficulty equal to a standard ranged attack at the desired range, upgraded once for the ring), is the price of a Ring (10,000) too high? When compared to the 7,500 credit Missile Tube from Star Wars?<br /><br />I don't know. Like I said, it's such a different system that it feels like it's comparing apples to anchovies when people try to duplicate D&D effects too specifically. Even comparing to Star Wars is hard, since that's a fully fleshed-out system with tons of options, and Genesys is currently a toolkit, at best.<br /><br /><br />Anyways... My impression at the moment is that magic is fine, as a system, for starting characters. It might not be able to be the best of the best at killing things, but it should be able to consistently put out levels of damage that, while not the absolute best, will be respectable, all while leaving a lot of other options open. What's hurting it the most, in my eye, is the lack of outside advancement options (talents, equipment) to support it.Greatfritohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11968498928457686840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5891731747515762073.post-51566208168628500752017-12-13T16:28:54.218-08:002017-12-13T16:28:54.218-08:00The Deadly Wand will crit more often but deal less...The Deadly Wand will crit more often but deal less damage, and it will hit more frequently than the staff (but not as frequently as the greataxe). Honestly, it's probably the better option if you don't care about only targeting things in short range. The reason I chose the staff was because it brought the damage up to being even with the greataxe (and I wanted as direct a comparison as I could get), and because it's the more generally useful implement. What I mean by that is, regardless of what spell you're using the staff will let you increase its range. The deadly wand, however, is only useful with the attack spell, and only if you're trying to crit. <br /><br />I'm comparing the attack spell to a heavy melee weapon to see whether a "blast" mage can be done, as a lot of players who use magic like to deal a lot of damage. <br /><br />Regarding the longbow comparison, it's not all that different from the greataxe. It has the same base damage and crit rating, and while the greataxe has pierce 2 and vicious, the longbow can shoot out to long range and (more importantly), can attack with one purple if you're at short range. <br /><br />Speaking of the longbow, during our playtest this was easily the attack option that was most useful. Thanks to an easily nabbed (tier 1) talent called "Hamstring Shot," the longbow was actually better at "control" than the spellcasters could ever hope to be. A powerful Nemesis NPC was kept at long range by the archer for 3 consecutive rounds, and had the combat gone on longer he probably would have kept doing it. It doesn't require strain to be spent, it doesn't require an increase in difficulty, and it doesn't require Advantage to use. You just hit, halve the damage, and the target is immobilized. <br /><br />Had I decided to compare an Ice spell to a weapon, a longbow would have been a great comparison (and the bow would win over the spell).<br /><br />In D&D the Barbarian definitely does more at-will damage than a mage, but this Genesys comparison isn't comparing at-will damage. That's because spells aren't at-will at all. In D&D terms, I'm doing something closer to comparing an at-will weapon attack to an encounter or daily spell. And the at-will weapon attack is still coming out ahead. It's not the best analogy because the strain cost has no direct analogue in D&D, but spells in Genesys are definitely a limited resource! <br /><br />My point is largely that a limited resource attack should be more effective than an at-will attack.Brian Slabyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05333048710667620592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5891731747515762073.post-14068033478181351542017-12-13T13:15:55.148-08:002017-12-13T13:15:55.148-08:00How do your results change if you switch out the s...How do your results change if you switch out the staff for a Deadly Wand ("Deadly" add-on without increasing difficulty)?<br /><br />Why are you comparing the magic attack spell to a heavy melee weapon? Wouldn't a comparison to the Longbow be more apt?<br /><br />If a D&D barbarian does more damage, more often, more regularly with their basic "at-will" attacks than a D&D mage (I really don't know - I haven't played D&D since they moved to 5th), does that mean that similar results in Genesys are acceptable?<br /><br />I guess I'm just not really sure what your comparisons are really showing, either in this case, or in your previous examples comparing to Star Wars Ranged (heavy) weapons.Greatfritohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11968498928457686840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5891731747515762073.post-51083564979900844892017-12-09T15:20:16.129-08:002017-12-09T15:20:16.129-08:00Yes, I did think of this exact thing while I was w...Yes, I did think of this exact thing while I was walking the dog earlier. It's hard to justify the Strain cost, and more importantly the nastier Threat/Despair table, based on this comparison. Granted as I said on the podcast last night I'm NOT in favor of removing the Strain cost from magic (with the exception of a talent that removes it for lower difficulty, cantrip-like attacks). <br /><br />I think magic just needs to be stronger. My ideal magic user doesn't do as much "at-will" as a weapon user, but they can bust out a powerful effect every so often. Admittedly it's probably harder to balance that without turning magic into a harder resource management game. I don't think I'm necessarily opposed to that, but it's hard to make that fit into Genesys.<br /><br />I was also thinking that if I ran a mage in Genesys, I might prefer to tweak the Force powers from Star Wars to get more of what I want. While I don't think the Force does the "nova mage" thing as well as D&D, another aspect of magic that appeals to me is when effects are more or less guaranteed. In D&D a cure spell always works, and Fireball will deal half damage even if the targets pass a Reflex save. Likewise, if you're willing to use dark side pips a Force power typically just happens, and those that don't use normal difficulties (i.e. Move), and not inflated difficulties like Genesys magic.Brian Slabyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05333048710667620592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5891731747515762073.post-2410281389742983992017-12-09T10:17:48.598-08:002017-12-09T10:17:48.598-08:00While I can't comment on whether the methods a...While I can't comment on whether the methods are solidly put together, I have reviewed your data and would like to point out some left out and interesting Items.<br /><br />The first I would like to point out is the number of successful checks made on either side. There is a record 62 successful magic attacks, and 80 successful melee attacks. Of the attacks that hit, the magic attack averaged 10.3 damage, while the melee attack averaged 10.6 damage. Of attacks that missed, the magic attack averaged 0.6 advantage, while the melee attack averaged 2.4 (this data appeared less useful that originally anticipated). <br /><br />The first two pieces of data relate to the ideas of low accuracy, high damage attacks. Your data shows that the magic attack hit less frequently, and of those hits did on average less damage than the melee attack comparison.Alex Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00769982627120100756noreply@blogger.com